Late onset spasticity

Learning to walk again after my hip replacement, my physio said almost the same thing. Don’t just stick to the safe, flat, level terrain, walk on grass, inclines, etc. in other words don’t don’t just stick with a treadmill, it’s all about muscle memory :smile:

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no, Simon,
“exhausting my glute on purpose” does not sound like all-round general purpose advice, and likely not lead to any gain. Perhaps it will suit no-one. Yet releasing a muscle sometimes requires me to exert it. Also, pushing it beyond the comfort zone can reveal problems that usually don’t surface, and this can help diagnosis. We’ll see if I can work out what is going on. Maybe I’m pushing too much. It’s likely my condition is nothing like another person’s ; the chances of talking about two completely different situations or talking cross-purpose are high.
good luck, Roland

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The best book I’ve ever read on stroke recovery is a rental on Amazon Kindle;
“Stronger After Stroke” by Peter G. Levine.

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Simon: good advice my friend and by the way: I was born in Dumfries Home of Rabbie Burns.

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Are you sure that’s not “opening an old wound” or you’ve created a new one by over exerting? You can still strain muscles…quite easily as I discovered a week ago :roll_eyes: Managed to pull a little something in my shoulder last week at the gym doing pull-ups…I pushed for one rep too many :confounded:

Hi Emerald,

I have caused and suffered from countless minor injuries from pushing my arms too hard / too fast. I am very protective with my arms. Shoulders are a nightmare and need extreme delicacy. I use extreme care in not going too far. I haven’t got sensation in my arm, yet, but unusually, I have full movement.
However, leg mechanics are much more simple. I have not come across self injuries with my leg. I’m in push and explore mode when it come to my leg. Please don’t take this for one minute as an endorsement for this kind of approach. Stroke muscles are a law apart and respond in no way like ordinary muscles.

That said, yes, I am pushing my leg muscles, at the moment.
Next week things might be different !

Good luck, Roland

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Yes I’m realising that you can’t push shoulders the way you do legs, as daughter is always reminding, your legs are carrying the full weight of your body every day from the minute you get up in the morning, not so with shoulders :roll_eyes: :confounded:

You listen to your body, so no knows better than you what it can and can’t, where and when to push a little or a lot. Just as I do, though that pull in my good shoulder actually stemmed from my middle finger just because I adjusted grip ever so slight in mid pull up :confounded: Something to remember in future not to do me thinks :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Frustrated at the fact, if you have spasticity your repetitions are to be slow and controlled. Example: curls with resistance bands. Fast reps make the condition worse (velocity). But: then therapists tell you many many repetitions is the key to recovery. If I were doing many repetitions at a slow controlled pace I would be in the gym all day.

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Do you take any time away from it at all. You do know to take 2 days break from it and go do something else. I always found with that break I notice the benefit as well as the progress I’ve made when I go back to it. And I always found that spurred me on, to do more, to do better. And it’s not just about exercise, you also have to try to go through motions as you would use arm/hand/leg in normal life. You can’t just stick to one fixed set of motions you use in your therapy workout. You also have to apply it to real life, in my view, that’s where many many repetitions lay that your therapist speaks of.

Picking up a pen to write, raising your cup to lips, filling up a kettle, buttoning up your shirt, locking your own front door; there’s where the muscle memories all lay in wait to be triggered. Trigger your instincts and reap the benefits of all your hard labour.

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“Stronger after stroke” …I just finished that book.
It’s a helpful all-round useful book and good resource.
though it could go deeper IMO

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@EmeraldEyes : yes I’m well aware of that “reps with daily life movements.” I play the piano every day, leading to thousands of reps, I also draw and practice writing with a fat pen. As I wrote in another post repetition like this is best when it is something you love to do. The brain responds. As far as other spastic muscles in my body. I spend time dancing to good old rock n’ roll for at least 20 min. a day.
I tried Thai Chi, but found it boring. Like you though, I am very concerned about strength and how it increases longevity.

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@pando I especially like his take on spasticity which is my biggest problem at the moment. He discusses more about the subject than any of my many therapists did. A lot of my good therapists kind of turned a blind eye to the subject and just said “stretch more”.

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… yes, gettting a good answer out of people is a bit uncommon these days

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I tried the Thai Chi, but it too slow for my balance issues at the time, and like you, found it a bit boring :blush:

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Personally I think doctors/specialist, let alone therapists, only know some much.
The half of it is still a mystery to them too. They can only do the best they can with the limited knowledge they have. Because, lets face it, the brain and it’s connectivity’s to the rest of the body is just too complex, remains a mystery.
A lot of their knowledge is learnt through us, the stroke survivors, along with a certain amount of trial error.

There are that many conditions needing research out there now and just not enough money and researchers to go round them all.

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@EmeraldEyes : I agree and BTW I knew a wee bit more about strength training than many of my therapists.
I was a powerlifter and bodybuilder in my “normal” days. The big deal today in stroke survival is neuroplasticity. At my age, I suppose it will take billions of reps to show progress. But it is worth a 100% try. We know our own bodies better than anyone. But…I have an extreme respect and fondness for those therapists who were kind, supportive, and hard working.

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Then you already know how to rebuild your muscle mass and I doubt it’s going to take you years. But then, I don’t really know what kind of condition you are in mobility wise after the stroke. I know after a year of strength training I now have a good all over muscle mass, enough to lug around 50 to 100L bags of compost and dig around in my garden. (And that’s going from virtually no muscle through muscle atrophy after the stroke.). I can get from kneeling to standing without any aids or support and I can easily trek 4 miles without getting tired or winded. That’s how I measure my strength and abilities :wink:

It’s all about mind over matter! It’s how you look at this “disability”. I don’t see it as a disability, it’s not a negative thing for me. It’s a whole a new challenge of both mind and body for me, a new sport played by a whole new set of rules and routines. And with all the same highs and lows as in any other sport.

I haven’t had to go out and find ways to entertain myself in my retirement, it has found me and I’m up for the challenge :grin: I really find all this so fascinating and I’ve met an awful lot of lovely people along the way, who have been so wonderful, encouraging, kind and patient, including those this forum :smile:

The doctor, nurses and therapists do everything they can to put me back together, just as they did with replacing my hip and when I broke my ankle. So to do nothing and just give up would be undoing all their good work. That’s just insulting and no way to show my gratitude for the gifts they have given me.

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@EmeraldEyes
My number one problem and it is a huge elephant in the room is Spasticity from my neck, down the arm to the hand, Lat muscle, Hip and leg…all on the right side ALL the time. Only sleeping or lying still, stops it. This onset happens to 1/3 of stroke survivors. I am one of the unlucky ones. When I “graduated” from Kessler rehab in New Jersey (the best) two months ago, I was in terrific recovery. Now this evil demon of spasticity has reared its ugly head. I’ve tried 3 kinds of muscle relaxers to no effect. I can move all my limbs, but it feels like a dentist shot my whole right side with novicane and cement. Because the whole right side is affected: botox can’t be used. They told me that when the warm weather starts, the spasticity would lessen. So far…NO! The thing that keeps the spasticity going are the nightly spasms in bed…and these fuel the fire.
On the brighter side, I am getting stronger, but the numbness and rigidity are a horror.
Sorry for ranting.

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No, don’t apologise for a good rant, it needs to be done and this is always a good forum for getting it out. You’re entitled to have your low moments with good reason. But tomorrow is another new day to feel positive again.

Have you tried a TENS/EMS device? If it were me, I would have 8 electrodes, spaced evenly 4 down either side of my spine from shoulder to to base of the spine. And I’d run it for an hour twice a day every other day for a week just to see what effect it would have. Then I’d give it a week off and do it again. I’d even be prepared to leave it running on a low to half way setting all day or until the battery ran out. But that’s just me, in for a penny in for a pound :face_with_diagonal_mouth: :smile:

I have found it calms the restless leg syndrome I have in my right leg. Similar to spasticity but not the same, due to osteoarthritis in the right hip and will eventually need replacing in years to come like the left hip. And, as I’ve said before, it has taken the pain away from my right thigh.

I have 4 electrodes on my back just now ready to go, but I’ll give it an hour yet as my workout was late today.

@EmeraldEyes
Good thought: My chiropractic used to use this years ago when I had a cervical problem. Worth a try: Thanks so much.

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