Breathlessness

Rheumatoid arthritis can cause shortness of breath if there has been scarring in the lungs, I am lead to believe. Check the adverse effects of Methotrexate, and if breathlessness is not on there, I doubt it is the meds. Stroke can also cause breathlessness, but it's diffierents types of breathlessness for different types of stroke depending also where on the brain the damage was done.

Thanks Jeanne - an interesting point about the COQ10 as until yesterday I'd never heard of this. I had been talking to a friend of the family who I've not spoken to in a few months and it was him who - completely unprompted - mentioned that a chap he knows is taking Statins and COQ10. My initial reaction is to say ' so why should I take yet more medication to counter an issue with an existing medication ?' But I'm not discounting it out of hand - I will look into it. b/w Robert

Hi Rups - I was hoping that you might pick up on my latest post - so many thanks for taking time out to reply. That said ... phew ... I've had to read it a few times to get the gist. So more likely the breathlessness is a consequence of the stroke rather than the muscle-weakening side-effect of the statins .... or any of the other meds. That's a pity - so no quick solution then. As you say - when my breathlessness first set in it was more alarming than 'serious' but this leads to anxiety which probably doen't help. It is certainly an 'uncomfortable' feeling and the feeling of relief when managing a full depth breath is truly palpable. My daughter has been prompting me to seek alternative/complimentary therapies but thus far I have countered that there does not seem to be much point whilst we are still trying to find out what is happening (or not happening) as a consequence of the stroke and what is a consequence of the medication. In this day and age of 'mindfullness' therapies I wonder whether there is some form of meditation that might help those of us living with the effects of a cerebellar stroke ? R  

Thanks for your contribution - much appreciated. I have a consultation with a Haematologist next week - will see what they have to say. I've noticed a couple of mentions of Ezetimibe in various posts on the SA forum - I've no idea what it is .... but will now do some further research. 

Well, that said there is (SILI), which is statin-induced lung injury. It's not common though, and I am not sure but I think it comes with other symptoms like a cough and fever, so if you are getting that combination then I would press further medical tests. Some meds can also cause respitarory depression, especially some CNS depressants. I always check sites like: https://bnf.nice.org.uk/interaction/ whenever offered a medication because although one medication on its own may not have the adverse effect, it may in combination with another. I've had a few GPs not check this and I've pulled them up on it and made them switch medication.

Nothing in this post stroke life seems certain but we have to deduce shrewdly in order to eliminate worry and fears.

However, on a purely stroke basis, reduced respitarory drive and cerebellar stroke is common. I have it and I am pretty sure it has no relation to the statins I am taking. You can ask for a respitarory assessment through your GP as a referral. It is done at the hospital.

So, back to the stroke symptom, the only thing that has worked for me is breathing exercises and learning breathing control. Because we can take back control of it, it just takes practice.

There are lots of resources online, this one is from the NHS (https://www.uhb.nhs.uk/Downloads/pdf/PiBreathingExercises.pdf).

At the end of the day, it is fixable. If it is not a serious underlying condition, we can still breath, and that is the main thing. We just need the cerebrum to take over some of that responsibility.

Anxiety magnifies everything, and also if you are focussing too much on it, it can make breathing more laboured because you think you need more oxygen, so the cerebellum kicks in and tries to take in emergency air and because of the misfiring of communication it becomes very laboured and you feel breathless - Catch-22. Remember, that even if you think you aren't thinking about something, even just a quick thought will get the cogs ruminating in the background. Like with panic attacks, they have worked out that panics aren't instant, sometimes the seed is planted hours beforehand or even days. 

I noticed my change at about the third month in, I needed to take a deep breath when turning in bed. Since then, it has become pretty regular and uncomfortable but not distressing. I did a fair amount of research into it because like you I was alarmed. However, at the same time, I had trouble swallowing saliva. So, I practiced for a month or two, swallowing, and also swallowing with a small amount of liquid. Nowadays, I can swallow fine. I think I retrained my brain to swallow because that too was fairly uncomfortable.

Hi Rups. I've currently stopped taking my statins by way of trial and error - my GP is aware but has not sought to deter me - to see if the muscle weakness improves. Only 10 days in so a work in progress. At risk of overthinking things I have a theory that as well as affecting the main skeletal muscles the statins might also be affecting my diaphram and hence when tired or stressed the breathing issue starts. It certainly helps to stop and rest and it doesn't take long before a deep and fulfilling breath brings with it a palpable relief. I don't have any concern that there is anything more in this than either fatigue related to the stroke and/or the statins. Or both ! 

Sounds like an interesting course of action, it could be that the statins are exacerbating already weakened muscle tone and function, as the cerebellum plays a role in this. I am on Atorvastatin 40 mg, I don't really know why I was put on these, as a preventative I guess, as my cholesterol levels were fine. I know several other cerebellar stroke survivors who suffer from breathlessness, one nine years on! So please, keep me posted on your progress, and how you get on. I, personally, don't feel a need for them, but I did ask the consultant, and he advised me to stay on them, but I might ask him again next time, and I could do with reducing the amount of meds on my bedside table!

FYI "Statin-induced myopathy is a rare cause of diaphragmatic weakness. It should be considered in patients on statins presenting with muscle pain and unexplained dyspnea." - Chest Journal. 

How's your breathing now you've stopped the statins for a bit?

I have noticed that over the last three weeks i have been getting slightly out of breath could be old age ? but it's a strange one.

Thanks again Rups - I am about to arrange a consultation with a private Neurologist so it will be interesting to see what his take on this might be. Another week on since your post and I am still having ok days and not so ok days - which seem to alternate. Maybe I tend to slightly overdo things on the ok days. The body/muscle ache and general fatigue (and intermittent breathless sensation) is still a part of my everyday but I'm pretty sure that all of these symptoms are linked as when I don't feel short of breath my head is a lot clearer and I just feel so much better. Also the muscle ache is less of a problem. I understand that it should only take 3 days for the Statins to leave the body when the dose is stopped ... but my theory is that as I have been taking a high dose statin for almost 9 months it could take a couple of months to 'undo' any damage ... that's assuming that there are no long term consequences such as muscle myopathy. Will let you know how it goes. 

Interestingly enough, I accidentally went off my statins. I had put through an online order for my repeat prescriptions. I recieved a confirmation email, and thought everything was okay. I waited the 48 hrs, and my prescriptions didn't arrive, so I gave them a day or two extra leeway before calling. I had to then wait another five more days without the statins. So, I thought I would leave it, and see what happens. Immediately, nerve pain I had been enduring in my left leg went away. So, this was a positive. I am not sure how it will affect the dyspnoea, like you, I have been on statins for about ten months. There could be time needed to regain strength back, or  rejuvenate any incapacity caused. it's hard to judge at this stage, I felt a little better breathing wise, but that could be a placebo. And since that feeling, the same malaise has resurfaced at various times. I have noticed that during fatigue it is worse, but fatigue is a strange beast in that it has degrees of intensity during the day, so even a slight feeling of fatigue will bring on a feeling of breathlessness, also, I think anxiety and focussing on it makes it worse, and this is almost uncontrollable at the time before it carries one away into the worst of it. This would explain the cerebellum dealing with "obstructive breathing" because if you feel you can't breath, the cerebellum would normally kick in to take in emergency air, but with a damaged cerebellum, this control would likely misfire, and the breath would be laboured because it would have to pass over to the cerebrum to pick up the slack. If you know what I mean.  

I have just had a chest x-ray, and am due to see my stroke consultant on the 18th of August (all going according to plan), I have also asked an "expert" from the Different Strokes website about this issue, and so hopefully will get a response. 

Hi, I had both an X-ray and CT scan but neither showed any scarring.

Hello, just got a response from a Professor Sharma from the Different Strokes website ... 

"A cerebellar stroke, in itself, does not affect breathing. However, as stroke can affect other parts of the brain, it may be that there is also some damage to the brainstem which can affect breathing. Often the breathing symptoms may simply be related to other associated medical conditions with stroke, such as heart disease or obesity. If the breathing is causing an issue, it would be worth getting the GP to check whether there are other causes." 

So, this is interesting as fatigue is not mentioned, and whether fatigue might be at the root of the breathlessness. So, the mystery remains, whether just part and parcel of general stroke damage, specific to the cerebellum, statins or from some other cause. I did not have any damage to the brain stem, but I wonder how much communication goes on between the cerebellum and brain stem. I still have a view that it has something to do with cerebellar obstructive breathing and fatigue. How are you going off the statins now? How's your breathing?

Update on dyspnoea, cerebellar stroke. I went to the hospital the other day, had a chest x-ray and a respiratory assessment. I performed well on the respiratory assessment, actually taking in a full extra litre of air on my final inhalation. I then had a meeting with my consultant. There was nothing apparent with my lungs or diaphragm that pointed toward dyspnoea. We spoke about statin-induced diaphragmatic weakness, he said that it was unlikely as it is quite uncommon. I did mention that cerebellar strokes are uncommon, and I had one. However, I mentioned the cerebellum taking in emergency air and misifiring causing breathlessness, he did say that this could be possible. This might occur when fatigued, or when fatigue or anxiety arises. It would only take one laboured breath with a bit of anxiety or difficulty, and the cerebellum would kick in suspecting needing air but having been damaged it can't manage the "obstructed breathing" as it would if undamaged. This is just speculation, but it was interesting that he conceded that this was not improbable. 

Anyway, the dyspnoea I have is still ongoing. I notice it improves with a change of my posture which makes sense because I give my lungs maximum capacity, and oddly enough, brushing my teeth. This may be because when I am brushing my teeth I tend to zone out and let my mind wander in the moment. I have started taking notes on when it occurs, what relieves it, and how long it lasts for. 

Hi Rups - occassinal breathlessness improving day by day. I'm convinced that most of the issues that I have been experiencing for the last six months are a direct consequence of the statins - which I stopped taking just over a month ago. I'm finally beginning to feel like normal service is being resumed. Neither the GP nor the Neurologist have taken issue with my actions and they persist with their collective head in the sand regarding the potential side effect of statins. My GP has just sent me a link to NHS guidance on a balanced diet to help lower cholestoerol ...but my LDL cholesterol has never been high anyway (@ 3.4 on admission to hospital) and after 9 months on the statins the LDL is currently 2.9 ... so a slight improvement ...but that might also be down to lifestyle (what lifestyle ?) and diet !

That's good to hear. I posted an update on dyspnoea under breathlessness. I too have ditched the statins. This is my father's response when I told him I was stopping statins, he's 83 ... "I think it wise to give up the 'statins' I myself have not much confidence in them. I'm of the opinion that red wine is the answer to such problems, and garlic of course. Never forget the garlic. I am fortunate enough not to be on any medications, save of course the two aforementioned super medications. Home brew is also very rich in vitamins in particular B12." laugh

I think it may be a complication of statins, cerebellar damgae, and fatigue. This is my theory ... the statins produce muscle weakness (including diaphramatic weakness). When we take a breath, and the weakness struggles to take in a full amount, the cerebellum kicks in thinking there is an obstruction, being damaged it exerts itself to communicate properly, and therefore, the result is a laboured breath. It's only a hypothsis, of course. 

 

hi, i am nearly 5 months post stroke, and finding breathlessness is quite a thing at present, which also brings on a fair amount of "unexpected fatigue",, on 80mg atorvastatin, feeling much more breathless, anxious, fatigued, than the first three months,, thanks, 

I have had the same odd breathing feeling since my stroke 3 years ago.   I don't get "out of breath", but I feel like I can't take a full breath--almost like there's a  band around my chest restricting its expansion.  Then I relax a  little, and I can finally fill the top  part of my chest and get that "cleansing breath" feeling, a full breath.   I kind of think it may be from having  residual anxiety caused by the whole stroke experience.    The docs listen to my breathing and heart and all seems fine there.   I also wonder if maybe the stroke also weakened the muscles in the chest area, since my left side was paralyzed for a while.  Maybe it would be a benefit to practice breathing exercises.   Does anyone know of any?  smiley Also, a little side thing that accompanied all this is that I could not stand the feeling of wearing a bra after my stroke.   The band drove me crazy.  I felt like I was being squeezed and suffocated.   I have eventually made myself reacclimate to the bra, but I still don't like the feeling of it.  Thanks.   Jeanne

I have the same problem with taking deep breaths since my stroke.  What breathing exercises do you do?  Thanks.  Jeanne

Dear Jeanne

I have benefited from doing breathing exercises every morning. I do those recommended by the BHF, those of us in rehab call them huff n puff. They are a set of five exercises, all seated, taking less than ten minutes. I needed these exercises, initially to reflate my lungs after heart surgery. But they seem to be a good idea for me to keep them going. I also take a gentle walk six days a week. Ideally chatting whilst I walk. 

best wishes

colin